An interesting discussion…

5 comments

I was sent a link to Dr. Stackhouse’s blog this morning by someone on staff here. He has recently written an interesting blog calling for a higher level of musicianship and lyric writing from worship leaders, specifically calling out Chris Tomlin. Here’s the link, it’s worth a read. I certainly don’t agree with everything and some of it really bothers me, but that’s ok… it’s good to hear what other people are thinking about these things.

Some of the comments are quite good too. My personal fav’s are #58 by J.D. Walt and #65 by Zach Nielsen. I also put a comment on it (#66), and was tempted to respond to Dr. Guretzki’s comparison with critiquing Window’s Vista (#8), but I thought I should get back to work.

On second thought, I’ll post one of Tomlin’s lyrics which I really do appreciate:

From the highest of heights to the depths of the sea
Creation’s revealing Your majesty
From the colors of fall to the fragrance of spring
Every creature unique in the song that it sings
All exclaiming

Indescribable, uncontainable,
You placed the stars in the sky and You know them by name.
You are amazing God
All powerful, untameable,
Awestruck we fall to our knees as we humbly proclaim
You are amazing God

Who has told every lightning bolt where it should go
Or seen heavenly storehouses laden with snow
Who imagined the sun and gives source to its light
Yet conceals it to bring us the coolness of night
None can fathom
Indescribable, uncontainable,
You placed the stars in the sky and You know them by name.
You are amazing God
All powerful, untameable,
Awestruck we fall to our knees as we humbly proclaim
You are amazing God
Indescribable, uncontainable,
You placed the stars in the sky and You know them by name.
You are amazing God
Incomparable, unchangeable
You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same
You are amazing God
You are amazing God

I think this is a good example of using creative imagery in the verses, and got me thinking about (and worshipping) God in a different way than any other song I’ve heard has done before. Is there a hymn written that says the same thing? Probably, but I can’t recall one.  Is it a perfect song? Definately not – it’s hard to sing and lead congregationally, and there are a few of the lyrics that i’m not crazy about. But all in all, I appreciate it and think it’s better than 95% of the songs that people are writing today. And that’s how it always goes, 99% of the songs that are written won’t ever be sung in a church, and 95% of the stuff that makes it into the church won’t last more than 10 years. I’m glad the best material naturally sticks around in all areas of art, and I’m interested to see what of the songs I’m singing and writing now are worth singing when I have kids who are my age.

5 Comments

    • davesiverns

      Thanks for the post, looks good!

  1. kickatthedarkness

    Hey Dave,

    Thanks for your comments on Stackhouse’s blog, and for pointing out a few other good comments! Those things can be a pain to sift through…

    I agree that Stackhouse’s tone is probably not especially beneficial, and I can even see your point about soft rhymes…that one really made me think. I also fully understand Ken Dosso’s useful point that the highest excellence people can achieve is nothing to God…no matter how well we do by our standards it won’t be more than kindergarten scribbles to Him…

    BUT…

    I think good poetry and high art does serve a very important purpose, especially for the Christian. I’m sure neither you or Ken would deny this: excellence serves a great purpose in restoring human souls, piquing human curiosity, and stimulating human minds, even if we’ll never impress God Almighty.

    That said, I can’t help but agree with Dr. Stackhouse for the most part, as well as others who hold the same sorts of ideas: Steve Bell, Kerry Livgren, and Brian McLaren, among others. Maybe this is just another rant by a guy who studied poetry in uni and is lamenting its “demise,” but I can’t help but be reminded of Ezra Pound, who said, “you can never expect to impress the expert [in poetry] unless you approach your craft with all…seriousness.” The point he went on to make, is that just as musicians are expected to train for years to achieve excellence as players of their instrument(s), great poets have to devote themselves to the writing of great poetry with the same fervour. Has the rise of pop music ushered in the mentality that the music comes first and the lyrics are just something we do after? Certainly not for everyone, but for some?

    In the worship music industry there seems to be no room for diversity, either in subject or style. I’ve been in the church for about 20 years, and sometimes I feel like I’ve been singing roughly the same song for all of them. There’s an acceptable vocabulary that writers must use if they want to market a song as a “worship song,” and it seems that only songs marketed as worship songs are accepted for use in churches. Would a Bono or Bruce Cockburn survive in the “worship music” market? Yet I think that some of the most profound moments of worship I’ve had have come from their songs! Why? Because they’re well-crafted, thought-out, thought provoking, and the way in which they compliment the tune they’re set to is obviously considered. I think that our writers should aspire to this and even higher: “Indescribable” is a good song, but I wouldn’t call it great…

    Anyways, so sorry for going so long…I hope among all the deadwood there’ve been one or two helpful thoughts.

    Cheers!

    • davesiverns

      Thanks for the comment! I agree with pretty much everything you’re saying. I think the worship music “industry” is rather shallow and flawed in many ways, and that high art plays (or should play… more than it does in current evangelicalism) a huge part in the church. Guys like Bono and Cockburn are fantastic writers, and you’re right, they probably wouldn’t be accepted by the worship industry (if you’ve noticed, my last 6 and next 6 blogs are reviewing U2’s latest album… more blog time than I’ve given to anything worship as of yet).

      That being said, I think there’s a fine ballance that those who don’t lead music often fail to realize. The more people you have trying to sing it, the simpler it needs to be. Granted, no one should use that as an excuse to dumb down lyrics or sing the same things that been in the same songs for years, but it’s a necessity of leading large goups of people in singing… especially in the musical realm. I’ve found that most people who write/compose “high art” miss that and leave any chance of being congregational behind. I think lyrics should be stretched further than what they are… I can’t tell you how many times I’ve switched stations because another predictable/boring song has come on to the Christian station here. I’ll blog about that soon too…

      Maybe this is a chance for performance to make a comeback in the church. People are complaining about how worship has become ‘entertainment’, but I think we should be presenting more music and poetry (and art and dance) to people to point them to God. Maybe that’s more the place for higher art in the church?

      • kickatthedarkness

        Yeah, the congregational “problem” is one that deserves respect. It’s not really a problem: one of the most rewarding challenges for me recently has been laying my strong musical preferences aside for the sake of rewarding communal worship. Incidentally, I feel like I have a lot more right to constructive criticism when I’m participating happily in the status quo! Anyways, I really agree with your comment on “performance.” Eveangelicals seem quite adamant on songs being “singable,” but I wonder if there shouldn’t be more occasion to just sit back and listen? I think we run into a bit of a paradox: the nature of participation in art is largely passive (we read a poem, or listen to a song, or watch a dance…), but we want the nature of our worship to be active, so we run into small (or large?) difficulties reconciling passive art with active worship. Communal singing is rewarding and worthwhile, but maybe there’s a time to be passive and let art do its thing! Anyways, thanks for posting this link, it’s a discussion we should have!